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Interview with Tuomas Holopainen, Nightwish
Wednesday, 02 January 2008

By Matt Kastner

Note: The following interview took place on November 18, 2007 in Worcester, Massachusetts.

TuomasUSAProgMusic: First I wanted to congratulate you on the success of Dark Passion Play…

Tuomas Holopainen: Thank you.

USAProgMusic: And I must say it’s very much more “epic” than your previous releases as well.

Tuomas: I have to agree. It’s long as hell, too.

USAProgMusic: Haha, yeah. It peaks out around 75 minutes or so. On my way up here, I got caught in a traffic jam in New York City and listened to the album two times by the time I had gotten out.

Tuomas: Ouch. New York traffic… we experienced that as well. I think it took us three hours to get from Central Park to New Jersey.

USAProgMusic: Anyway, what sorts of influences were really heavy on the music of the album to you?

Tuomas: Well… the influence always starts with the story and the lyrical concept of the album. I think this one became the darkest and heaviest we had ever done because I wrote most of the songs in 2005, early 2006. It was really a dark time for the band and in my personal life. Everything pretty much sucked. And when you are in that stage you end up doing the kind of songs that are on this album. It’s kind of funny the way people hear the songs in different ways. Some people have told me that it’s a very “happy” album, but I don’t see that at all, with the exception of maybe the songs “Amaranth” and “Last of the Wilds.”

USAProgMusic: Speaking of “Last of the Wilds” that’s one of my favorites on the album.

Tuomas: Yes, it’s a happy little song. It shows the Celtic influences we had for this album. It’s also the process of systematic thinking where you’re trying to add new elements to the music and to the band.

USAProgMusic: Exactly. And that’s what a lot of bands nowadays fail to realize. Then they end up going through the same formulas over the years and before you know it…the music just becomes really bland and boring.

Tuomas: That’s right. No band should ever be the presenter of a format. I mean, you are not tied to the band’s name. If you want to do something different under that name then it’s perfectly ok. That’s what Paradise Lost did. That’s what The Gathering did. And I think it’s really cool. You just have to follow your heart and do the kinds of things you want to do.

USAProgMusic: I agree 100%. I know exactly where you’re coming from. Now, “Poet and the Pendulum” is easily the longest song you’ve ever written before and in my opinion, the best as well.

Tuomas: Mine, too. You have to understand this song is the most personal song in my most personal album. All of the pieces really had to come together at the end. It’s a sad little song with a happy end.

USAProgMusic: Yeah, it starts off with some sort of haunting theme…

Tuomas: Yeah there’s a lot of Danny Elfman in this album and then the middle is kind of like The Lord of the Rings…

USAProgMusic: And a bit of Hans Zimmer as well.

Tuomas: Yes. And then a kind of Pantera style. Then in the end, it’s just something else.

USAProgMusic: How’d you go along composing these pieces and then putting them all together?

Tuomas: I had the whole story of the song from Point A to Point B. It’s just how the story goes. It starts off over here, and then you start to paint the story alive with the music. Just like film composers do with movies. They see a picture and try to bring it alive with music. That’s the most characteristic thing to me as a songwriter. I can never start jamming with riffs. I have to have the whole idea of what the whole song’s about. Like “Ok, this whole thing with Tarja really sucks” so I’ll write something about that. Or “Well, I want to do this like Celtic-dance type thing,” and I think it would be like that. And then I want to do a story about my childhood home and the feelings of that; then that song ends up becoming “Meadows of Heaven.”

USAProgMusic: Speaking of “Meadows” I really liked the inclusion of the gospel choir in the end there.

Tuomas: Yeah it works out perfectly.

USAProgMusic: And it comes off as a surprise and then once it gets going it’s like, “Wow… this is really cool!”

Tuomas: We had no idea if it was really going to work or not. Then when they started singing in the studio it was really amazing. They were great people to work with, too. You could tell they had this great love for life and everything around it.

USAProgMusic: What appealed to me too was I grew up around that style of music, so it was a nice little trip back to my childhood for me with that song. And also what I really liked about the album was the presence of Marco’s vocals, too.

Tuomas: That actually happened by accident. There were just so many parts in the album that we realized we could not let Anette sing, like “Bye Bye Beautiful” “Master Passion Greed” and “the Poet and the Pendulum.” Then with “The Islander,” it was a song he had written so he was humbly asking me if I could let him sing on it because he wanted to tell the story.

USAProgMusic: That’s another one that has a really nice Irish feel to it and then at the end it just blends in so perfectly with “Last of the Wilds.”

Tuomas: Yeah, that was the whole plan. Our little happy Celtic theme to the album.

USAProgMusic: Then with “Master Passion Greed” it’s just an all out bombastic, in-your-face heavy metal song.

Tuomas: Yeah it’s very hard and heavy stuff.

USAProgMusic: Even harder than the end of the song “Slaying the Dreamer”, too.

Tuomas: Yeah it is. It’s also something we will never, ever perform live. We all just decided it was about a dark time in our life that we really want to forget.

USAProgMusic: Anette’s vocals really surprised me, too. I wasn’t too sure what to expect when I first heard “Eva” and it was like, “Ok… this could work or it couldn’t…” but then I heard “Poet” and the rest of the album and was like, “Wow, this really did work.”

Tuomas: Yeah it truly sucked just bringing on “Eva.” We all knew what the reaction would be. It’s hard to see the whole picture. You have to put one song on a platter and automatically, people start criticizing. It’s only four and a half minutes out of seventy-five minutes. It doesn’t do justice for the song or the album or for her either. Just something you have to do.

USAProgMusic: I remember a lot of people criticizing her just for the sake of criticizing simply because she isn’t Tarja.

Tuomas: That’s right. We knew it was going to happen, and we knew the opinions were going to be divided as they still are. But I still think it ended up being much better than I expected. And it’s not so divided anymore than it was in the beginning.

USAProgMusic: Another thing that stuck out was how some people were going off in tantrums saying how you’ve “betrayed them” by picking somebody like Anette rather than somebody like Tarja.

Tuomas: Why would we pick somebody like Tarja? Because she was so good. And we didn’t want to have those kinds of vocals anymore. I hear people bitching all the time, “oh the opera is gone, oh the classical is gone. Nightwish is nothing and all like that…” We left that style a full three albums ago. Even in Tarja’s time, the opera was gone.

USAProgMusic: And even with the remake of “Sleeping Sun” that was even more hinting that you were going away from that style.

Tuomas: That’s right. Nothing much has actually changed. If you listen to the album the same image of the band is still there. The female vocals have changed, but they are still very strong, emotional like they were before.

USAProgMusic: And something somebody else asked me to ask you is that are you going to be changing up some of the older material to fit Anette’s voice or keep it pretty much the same?

Tuomas: They’re going to change a lot. I mean she’s going to sing them in her own style. That’s something that’s going to surprise a lot of people. I think that’s the only fair way to do it. I mean if she started trying to imitate Tarja, that could be very wrong.

USAProgMusic: Yeah and then you have people going, “she’s ripping Tarja off and…”

Tuomas: Yeah exactly. We didn’t have to re-arrange the songs in anyway. It’s just her interpretation and the way of singing is totally Anette. It’s very interesting times.

USAProgMusic: And I’ve seen a lot of people blasting her interpretations of “Wishmaster” or “Nemo” and I can’t help but say to them: “Look guys. Were you actually there to hear this? You’re basing your opinions off of a bootleg video you saw on the Internet.”

Tuomas: Yeah, that’s right. Well the music brings up passions and I think that’s a good thing. People are reacting so strongly. If she misses a note in “Sleeping Sun” people are already bitching and going, “That’s blasphemy!” I mean… come on…

USAProgMusic: It’s like you can’t even change a song up to make it better, or tweak it better. It has to be exactly like the way it’s written.

Tuomas: And I think something people forget too is that tonight will only be like her seventh or eighth show ever, so give her a little space. She’s under an enormous amount of pressure. It’s a whole new world and style of music for her.

USAProgMusic: And like you said, it’s only her seventh or eighth show and you figure Tarja had years to perfect that.

Tuomas: That’s right. People are expecting her to be equally good in a few hours. Just give her time. I already think that she’s really, really good performing live. Just give it time. Same for us, too. I still think we suck live.

USAProgMusic: Really?

Tuomas: Well… not suck, but there’s a lot to be improved. And that’s also why we’re on tour. You can’t learn to play shows when you’re in the rehearsal room.

USAProgMusic: No, you can’t because it’s only you guys there. It takes away the whole atmosphere of being in front of the crowd and under the lights and feeding off of the energy that it’s giving you. And it’s also great of you to admit that, too. I’ve met artists in the past where they won’t admit a thing if they do it wrong or anything like that.

Tuomas: And I think you need to screw up, too. It’s all part of the live experience. If you want perfection, then you have the album. The little mistakes, they all bring the show alive.

USAProgMusic: Also with the whole live vs. the album thing… Ok on the album you have clips that were taped together on the album to make it sound the best it possibly can; whereas on stage, you have the band themselves performing it out. It’s not “ok, we’ll take this part here and then this one there and mix them together.”

Tuomas: That’s absolutely right.

USAProgMusic: And speaking of shows… how has the crowd reactions been so far for you guys?

Tuomas: Oh they’ve been fantastic! Especially over here in the States. I haven’t seen a middle finger yet (both laugh) over here, but I did see one over in Finland. People are really nice. I can sense there’s a lot of silence and waiting when the older songs are being played. People are always going, “Ok how is she doing this” and then they start to listen intently. But, it’s really encouraging. Especially now since we’re just starting this thing, it’s really encouraging to her.

USAProgMusic: Now, getting back to the writing of the album, Emppu wrote “Whoever Brings the Night.” Was it the lyrics and the music, or just the music?

Tuomas: No, just the music. I keep the lyrics to myself. But it was the first time he wrote a full song for us.

USAProgMusic: And it turned out really well, too.

Tuomas: Yeah it did! He’s a happy little man, and the song’s kind of dark. So it’s a little controversy there. We’re also doing it live every now and then. Maybe not tonight, but every now and then. There are also a few songs we’re still practicing, like “Seven Days to the Wolves” and “While Your Lips are Still Red.”

USAProgMusic: I’ve got a friend up in Montreal who’s been dying to hear “While Your Lips are Still Red” too, but don’t worry I won’t tell her.

Tuomas: Ok thank you. (both laugh)

USAProgMusic: Now, getting to Jukka, since I’m a drummer (both laugh)… When it comes to the drum parts on the songs, do you tell him what to do within the song, or does he sit down and compose his own parts?

Tuomas: Well it’s like you just said. It’s like, “this is kind of the way I want it. I want the double bass here or the hihat here; but if you come up with something better, then please feel free to change it around.” Then sometimes it changes a lot. I do the basic things. He does all the fills. Same thing with guitars and bass, too. I can’t play them worth shit, so I leave that to them.

USAProgMusic: Speaking of the keyboards… what kind of equipment are you using on the tour?

Tuomas: Well it changed quite a bit for this tour. Now it’s all samples and we have two portable Macs and all the sounds come from them. I use two Korg Tritons and a Korg Karma.

USAProgMusic: Haha. I was almost expecting you to say a Korg Oaysis there.

Tuomas: I’m actually running all of the sounds from an Oaysis from the Macs into the Tritons. But, I don’t really know how it all works. I leave the keyboard tech to worry about that. But, the Oaysis is the best keyboard I’ve ever played. I have one at home, but it’s far too heavy to bring along on tour. So I just sampled.

USAProgMusic: Oh and just for pure laughs… when will we ever hear a song composed by Jukka?

Tuomas: (laughs) He told me he will never compose one. Same with Anette.

USAProgMusic: And getting back to the influences thing we talked about earlier, what musicians would you say have the biggest influence on your playing and writing?

Tuomas: Danny Elfman, Hans Zimmer, Metallica, Pantera, My Dying Bride. Well, that’s it I think. The biggest influences musically.

USAProgMusic: And as far as the rest of the band goes…

Tuomas: Well, Marco is a heavy metal guy to the bone. You know… Iron Maiden, Deep Purple, Thin Lizzy; that kind of stuff. Emppu, he likes his guitar heroes. Malmsteen, Vai, Satriani, etc. He’s more into hard rock more so than metal. I think Van Halen is his favorite band of all time. Anette’s into everything. She listens to Sonata Arctica to Amorphis to Finntroll to Amy Whitehouse.

USAProgMusic: That’s almost the way I am myself. I try not to limit myself as a musician and a writer to just one style or genre.

Tuomas: That’s right. You should always listen to good songs. Not just genres. I’m also a Nelly Furtadao fan, too. “All Good Things Come to an End” is one of the best songs I’ve heard in years I think.

USAProgMusic: That’s nice to see other genres coming into play, too. Most of the people I talk to seem to only be into one genre of music and they’re almost limiting their minds and themselves.

Tuomas: I think that the eighth deadly sin would be narrow mindedness. I really hate when people are like that. You have to have a broad mind in everything.

USAProgMusic: Let’s see… Pip Williams ran the orchestrations on the album too, right?

Tuomas: Yeah. He’s worked with so many acts, too. Uriah Heep, Status Quo, the Moody Blues… And he’s such a wonderful guy. He instantly understood what we were after so we shared that connection. He’s an older guy, but he still gets excited about everything. He even made a dedication to the album saying it was the best one he’s ever worked on and I was like, “Whoa?! Here’s a guy who’s worked with everyone and he chooses this as number one.”

USAProgMusic: And one last one before our time is up. Just out of pure curiosity how many different tracks are there on “Poet and the Pendulum?”

Tuomas: We never really counted. It’s between two and three hundred. But there’s a lot throughout the whole album. It’s insane. In “Cadence of Her Last Breath” there were about thirty-nine different vocal tracks, just of Anette and Marco.

USAProgMusic: Wow… well anyway, that’s all we have time for today and I wish you luck on the rest of the tour, as well as tonight.

Tuomas: Thank you.

MacFly

Carla

za niedługo pewnie Razz

Loriana

Następna płyta Nightwish będzie pewnie popowa. Niecierpię N.Furtado, Tuomas coraz bardziej mnie zaskakuje.

MacFly

Jeśli to będzie dobry pop to czemu nie.
Choć też nie cierpię Furtado. Wolałabym już chyba aby Tuomas powiedział, że lubi Beyonce.